#6: How to Get Out of Our Own Way and Allow Our Teams to Thrive With Jackey Fischer
Description:
Jacky Fischer bought her parents' moving business and grew it from $3 million in annual revenue to over $40 million. This journey is not without its rollercoaster twists and turns.
In this powerful episode, we hear Jacky Fischer's story and lean into her wisdom on how to get out of your own way and allow your teams to thrive.
"The Growth Paradox" highlights Jacky's industry-disrupting signature management method aimed at helping small business owners avoid the pitfalls most destructive to a company’s growth.
Stay tuned for many takeaways and valuable insights.
Bio:
Jacky Fischer grew up working in a multitude of crazy family businesses. She is quite sure her parents broke every child labor law.
She received her undergrad from the school of hard knocks and her MBA from Rice University. In 2003, she bought her parent’s moving business and grew it from $3 million in annual revenue to over $40 million.
Jacky just finished her first book, The Growth Paradox, which highlights her industry-disrupting, signature management method aimed at helping small business owners avoid the pitfalls that are most destructive to a company’s growth. As an expert on what it takes to build a multimillion-dollar brand, Jacky loves helping entrepreneurs skyrocket their businesses through proven & unique growth processes.
When she is not leaping buildings in a single bound, she is running the most innovative moving company, 3 Men Movers, and is in the process of starting a nonprofit to help others climb out of poverty.
Links:
Get Jacky's Book Here: https://jackyfischer.com/book/
Transcription:
(00:02):
Hello and welcome to Ignite Your Leadership. I'm your host, and I'm so happy to be your host, Tina Marie St.Cyr here. And today we are going to dive into an amazing woman's history and her story, and someone that I've literally stalked for about five years. And so I'm little giddy over here and I can't wait to hear more about her story and share her story with you. So let me introduce the one and only Jackie Fisher. Jackie grew up working in a multitude of crazy family businesses who could say yes to that me <laugh>, and she wasn't quite sure if her family was breaking child labor laws. That's hilarious. I want to hear more about that. Jackie received her undergrad from the school of hard knocks, like many of us, and then earned her MBA from Rice University Way to Go. In 2003, she bought her parents moving business, three men movers, and grew it from 3 million to an annual revenue of over 40 million. We are telling her story today, and she's written a book too. I want you guys to go to Amazon, make a note that you're going to dive into the growth paradox, and that's what we're uncovering and threading into today with Jackie. I can't wait. Jackie, thank you so much for being our guest here today on Ignite Your Leadership.
(01:16):
Thank you so much for having me.
(01:18):
You're just a, a jewel here in our Houston market, but more than that, and it, I know people are talking about you and, and your approach to growing a company that you know, has impact. And we're living in a world where the culture is very important to people. And I just wanna understand so much of what you've done to create this amazing growth, which takes tons of people. A moving business takes tons of people, and it seems like you've mastered that, as you said, paradox in your book.
(01:49):
Thank you. Yeah.
(01:50):
So you had an upbringing, I love that you call it the, the School of hard knocks. But you, you have a different term for your PhD. If you could share with our audience what your example of a PhD Whenever we're coming through this school of hard knocks equates to
(02:06):
Poor, hungry, and driven. And I think it's one of the best educations you can get. When you don't have money to do what you wanna do when you're a kid, you, you become scrappy. You become creative on how to, to get the things you want. And I think that creativeness helps you later on in life.
(02:27):
Yeah. With Scrappy, I know that that's a fond term in the entrepreneurial world. Is there a time where you went from knowing that you have to be scrappy, which is being very resourceful and using things that, that we may not have, like you just alluded to, to a different version of that. Is there something that, you know, you graduate into after scrappiness?
(02:48):
Well, you know, I don't see, I, I think some people see the word as scrappy as like a, a fight sort of term. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> like, you're gonna roll up your sleeves and duke it out. But I, I, I see it as more like scrapping for like, finding things and, and figuring things out, like MacGyvering things together. And I, I've come to the point where I don't need to do that. I have the resources in, in my team. Like I, I was just at a conference a couple weeks ago and they were saying they were complimenting me on, on the growth from three to over $40 million. And they kind of minimized what my dad did. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And my dad grew the company to 3 million. And I think growing a company, starting a business from nothing and growing it to $3 million, to me, that's the hardest part.
(03:38):
You have to be super scrappy because you don't have the resources you need with a small business. So you're, you're constantly trying to figure out how to do stuff with very little resources. But now that we're in a more mature company, I have a, a guy that's head of technology, I can go to him and I can ask him things and I can lean into experts that I have on my team that are way smarter than me. And it's, it's actually kind of a relief because when you have a small business and you're not really sure what you're doing, and you're pretty sure you're probably doing something wrong, but you don't know what it is. It's so much nicer to have people on the team that you can call and, and lean into and say, Hey, I, I don't know what I'm doing. Can you help me? And, and they have the resources. So it, it's definitely a different feeling having a mature company than a smaller company. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>
(04:28):
Beautiful. And I'm sure that your dad had that discipline as well and leaning into people that he could ask questions to. Like you said, whenever we're just starting, we may not have the, the monetary resources to pay people or put them on payroll yet, there are conversations we can have with people that have been there, done that, or Absolutely. You know, that they can lend their advice even if they're not being paid for it.
(04:52):
I remember this was like, I don't know, 30 years ago, he went to the Silver Foxes, which they're still around. They are. Yeah. And he asked them for help. And so he was, he was constantly trying to, to seek help and, and read books and, and better himself to learn things. And he had, he didn't have a business degree, but looking back on it, he was very business savvy and just had a lot of common sense.
(05:17):
He did. And, and you know, I've seen the Three Men Movers brand in our market forever. And I remember I'm gonna be 55 this year. So how old is the, the brand? Three Men Movers the company?
(05:31):
So it started in 1985. Mm-Hmm. I was 12 years old. I was it was truly a family business. I came home and there was like a little cassette recorder and, and answering the phones while we were gone. 'cause We didn't have somebody, we didn't have an office. We started it out of our apartment. Mm-Hmm. And I would listen to the, the recordings and take messages and call people back and give them quotes. Wow. So that's when it started. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>
(05:57):
That's phenomenal. And I, the brand, whenever I first see it visible in our marketplace with trucks, I was like, that's brilliant <laugh>. Like, and I've seen the different the, the growth of the, the logo, so to speak, or at least the size of the truck that had the name on it. How did your father start, or why did he start a moving company? Do you know?
(06:18):
Well, he was a serial entrepreneur. And I think there's like a lot of glamor when we talk about entrepreneurship. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And we think about Richard Branson and Elon Musk, but a lot of serial entrepreneurs are serial entrepreneurs. 'cause Every single business they started failed. And he was that kind. Unfortunately, he was that kind. And he was 40 years old. He had a delivery truck and a stack of bills. My mom was making minimum wage at the public library. And and he put the truck to work and thought, you know, I'm gonna start moving furniture for maybe a few months just to make enough money until I could figure out something better to do. Because at age 50, the last thing you wanna do is lift furniture. But Right. He was willing to do it for his family. And I can't, I, I turned 50 last year and I can't imagine being 50 years old and broke and not knowing what to do and having a wife and a child. And I, I, I, I have a lot more empathy now that I'm older and and respect for what he did at that age.
(07:22):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Thank you, dad. And so what was that pivotal point in, in your life where you did buy the business? Can you take us into that part of your story?
(07:32):
So he he grew the company and he was doing quite well, but he had a massive stroke in 2002. And it really affected his thinking. My dad was, he was, you know, I, I don't wanna make this into a bragging session about my dad, but Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, he was, he was the type of guy where he didn't have a college education, but he would read like crime and punishment for fun. You know, like he, he just was a voracious reader and he was a deep thinker. And so when he had this stroke, he was really having problems with his, with his head, you know? Yeah. It just took something away from him. And so he asked me to come in for a few weeks to just look at his business and give him some advice. And I was an art major at University of Houston at the time.
(08:20):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I don't know, which is funnier, him asking me to come in and look at his business. 'cause I knew nothing about business or me agreeing to do it, <laugh>. But I had a relationship with my dad where he said, jump. And I said, how high? So I, I immediately rolled up my sleeves and got involved, and then like a couple weeks turned into a few months, and that turned into a few, like over a year. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And at that time I realized that I loved business, but I really did not like working for my dad. Oh. 'cause We butted heads and we both had pretty strong personalities and we butted heads. So I gave him notice and I left the company. And about a week later, the drivers found out, because at that time, my dad, he was really at home most of the time.
(09:10):
He'd come up to the office maybe once a week, but he wa he really wasn't healthy. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so they found out, and they all signed this sheet of paper, and they gave it to my dad, and they said, we want you to get your daughter to come back and run this company. Wow. And I had told my dad that I would only do it under one condition if you'd sell the company to me. So after a lot of failed attempts at getting financing I, he, he agreed to finance it for me for a period of 15 years. So that's how I got in business. And then it was kind of like, wow, this is, this is real. I own a company and I still know nothing about business, so I have to kind of figure it out. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And actually, if you know the camera, there's like that yellow piece of paper right there.
(09:55):
Yes. I see that.
(09:56):
My parents framed that for me and and I hang it on the wall. So I remember that the guys are the ones that put me in this position.
(10:03):
So that's the note. Yeah.
(10:05):
That's the note. That's the
(10:06):
Note. Oh,
(10:07):
Thank goodness they gave it to me when they did, because during hurricane Ike Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> their, their house got washed away. So, I mean, a, a lot of the mementos that we had were destroyed, but Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But I have that, so
(10:20):
That's powerful. That's awesome. Very powerful. So how did it feel leader to have didn't to know that you were creating that impact for people that may not have even communicated that to you prior?
(10:33):
You know, I think, I'm probably gonna say the wrong words, but I'm just gonna be honest with you. Yeah. It was terrifying.
(10:41):
Mm-Hmm.
(10:42):
<Affirmative>, because I felt, well, one, my dad didn't have the money to retire. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And so the money that I was giving him for the business was going to fund his retirement. So if I somehow bankrupted the company I was going, like, my parents weren't gonna have money for retirement.
(11:00):
There's a big why.
(11:01):
That was a huge responsibility. And then the second thing was the guys were putting their faith in me to be able to run a company. And I, one of the things is I, I kind of knew what I, some of what I didn't know. I didn't know how to read a financial statement. This was before the internet.
(11:17):
That's not unusual for entrepreneurs, by the way. Yeah.
(11:21):
And so they would go, the CPA would go over the financial stuff with me, and I was like, I, I didn't understand what I was looking at. And I had to go down to the library and get books on financial statements for dummies and things like that, you know, and, and teach myself how to do that. And then finally I went back to school and got a business education. So that came in handy. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But for a while there I was kind of just flying by the seat of my pants and figuring stuff out.
(11:49):
That's awesome. That scrappiness, you know, started taking hold there. Do you remember that version of yourself back then? What some of your limiting beliefs would've been? What kept you up at night or you know, in the back recessions of your mind?
(12:04):
So, as the company grew, I, and it got bigger, the, the more I started getting nervous. 'cause I was like, wow, you know, I, I've never run a company that's $10 million before. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And I knew these guys were counting on me during the recession in 2007, the housing market crash. And it really kind of hit Houston in oh eight. True. I was really scared. I went to I went to the Christmas party and this year we had all the kids at the Christmas party, and I saw these families and these kids, and I thought, I gotta make this work because there's too many people relying on me. And when you, when you work for a company, you think about your paycheck, can you worry about your paycheck? But when you run a company, you worry about everyone's paycheck and making payroll. And it, it's a huge responsibility and it's, it's scary. So I immediately joined like a business group. I got mentoring. I did everything I could to try to improve myself and make myself the best leader I could and, and, and to understand the most I could about business. So that was really helpful.
(13:15):
That's awesome. From 3 million and, and, and scaling was it a focus on bringing the right people? Was it a focus on sales and marketing and branding? What, what were those pivotal focuses that you knew you needed to have? Or was growth even in your, in your purview? Or was it just maintain what we had? Where'd you start? I
(13:41):
Think, you know, I had that fire with me. In me. I, I like to grow things. I like to build things. I like to take something that maybe isn't great and make it better. It, it's just a personality trait. That's awesome. You know, that's why I like doing home renovation and stuff like that. Like taking something and, and just Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> putting my mark on it. So it's a number of things. And when, when I had my idea for my book, I went to the publisher and I, and he was like, what's your one big idea? Because most books center around one big idea. And I said, well growing a business is, is so multidimensional. It's more than just one big idea. And so what I had done over the last 20 years is I put all these ideas down and then I wrote a book around it.
(14:31):
Everything I wish I would've known and didn't know. So if I had to just pick one, which is very hard to do, right? Because it's a lot, oh God, I, I don't know if I can pick maybe I have to pick two. Okay. One is plan for growth. You have to plan for growth. Because a lot of times people grow and then they're rushing to hire people, and they're rushing to create this infrastructure to support their growth. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it should be like building a building where you dig down and you put the infrastructure in first, and then you build the building on top. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And if you're, if you're doing it the opposite way where you're growing your revenue, and then you're hiring people really fast to keep up with growth, you, you'll make a lot of mistakes and you'll hire too quickly.
(15:14):
And, and that can create a lot of problems. And then the second thing I think is you've got to let people engage. And that sounds really easy. But when you are so fully engaged and you care so much at, as a business leader about the success of the company, sometimes you just elbow everybody out of, out of the way. Mm. And just for example when I changed the way I had my business meetings I think that's when I saw an immediate change in the o overall tr growth of the company. And what, what I changed was, I literally just stopped talking as much and let everybody run the meeting. And it sounds so simple, but it, it wasn't as simple as it sounded like I created this agenda. And the original idea was I would get to kind of bow out and not go to business meetings. 'cause I found them boring <laugh>, which I'm embarrassed to talk about, but it's, you
(16:18):
Know, which most people do
(16:19):
<Laugh>. Yeah. It's completely boring. But the reason I found them boring is because I would go to the business meeting and I talked probably 80 or 90% of the time, and I, I had a list of things that I wanted everybody to do, and, and I just walked in. If I was five minutes late, we started five minutes late. If I left early, we left early. If I was on vacation, we didn't have meetings. So the meetings were essentially all about me. Right. and then once we switched that over, where I set an agenda and I said, look, if I'm not there, go ahead and have the meeting without me. Well, it took a couple false starts, but pretty soon they started having the meeting and really running the meeting all by themselves. This is my department heads. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And once they started running the meeting by themselves, they became fully engaged.
(17:06):
And the funny thing was, is I wanted to go to each meeting because I wanted to hear what was going on in the company. So I became more on time, more committed and I think a better leader because I was able to sit there and stay quiet. And sometimes, you know, it's almost like I have to squeeze my lips shut. Yeah. Not just do something. 'cause I feel like I know the answer, but to let them work out the problems, let them figure out what to do. And as a result of that, that's how you grow leaders within your organization is you let them, you know, kind of hang out there a while and you don't jump in and just try to take control of everything. Mm-Hmm.
(17:41):
<Affirmative> that's that whole, that adage teach man to fish. Absolutely. Right. And so that took a lot of self-discipline way to go <laugh>,
(17:49):
Thank
(17:49):
You. Way to go. I, I've been in that place where it's like, okay, I, I need to know that all my project leads have a plan and they're creating results and, and using the SOPs that we have and things of that nature. But it, it is, it's hard to quiet one's mind and just watch them work it out just like kids. In fact, you're a mom, right? I'm married and a mom. And so it's, it's like raising our children. We need to let them fall and get up and, and learn.
(18:20):
Do you find that in coaching? Sometimes you know the answer, but you're like, you're just like, oh, you wanna tell somebody the answer and you know the answer, but you gotta kind of let 'em figure it out.
(18:31):
Yeah. So it's that where can you have like a foot in to, to, you know, shift their head to the right direction so that they find the answer? Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's a, like a game of Marco Polo <laugh> in the meeting. Exactly. Right. Definitely. And it's fun because then it, it has us grow to, you know, see the genius and the potential in each one of our people and help pull that through, like picking the weeds outta the garden so the flowers can bloom. Right. yeah.
(19:00):
And you know, sometimes when they're struggling and I don't say something and they come up with an answer, and, you know, I have this inner dialogue when I'm not a very good active listener, which sometimes I'm not. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and the inner dialogue while they're talking is, I don't agree with that. That's never gonna work, blah, blah, blah. But I just, I don't say anything. And after they finish talking, I'm like, that's actually really brilliant. Like, once I really hear the idea. Yeah. But if I would've interrupt or given my answer, they, I probably would've never heard what their ideas were. And a lot of times their ideas are based on frontline knowledge that I don't have privy to. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And so they're, they're, they, they have a lot more information than I do.
(19:43):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so with that question as leader of the firm, do you allow them, or who, like, I don't know how you're structured, who is part of the strategic planning and the, you know, where are we going and then the systems analysis, or how are we gonna run this ship? Yeah. So how often do you touch that strategy?
(20:07):
Yeah. So once a year we have a strategic planning meeting and all the department heads are at that meeting. So we have somebody from marketing operations, technology sales, I feel like I'm missing something. Customer service and con our controllership. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So we have every, every main department head is there and we talk about what the vision of the company is, and we talk about what our yearly goals are gonna be. And then from there, so we pick out maybe four year yearly goals, and we pick out a champion to champion those goals. And then from there they pick out 90 day goals of what they need to work on in order to hit that yearly goal. And they pretty much pick their own goals. I really don't pick them for 'em. I might throw something in there if I feel like it's really important, but I, I have a smart enough team that they can look at the yearly goal and break that down into quarters.
(21:06):
Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And if anything, I usually tell 'em. 'cause I, I've heard people say, well, you know, if you don't give 'em their goals, they're gonna choose work that's not challenging. Mm-Hmm. And I find that to be the opposite. Usually they, they come to me and they're like, I'm gonna do eight things this in the next 90 days. And I'm like, oh, you better cut that down in half. There's no way. And I would rather you do really well on maybe three or four things than kind of mediocre on eight things. So I think you need to prioritize what are the top three things. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So that's how we break down our work over the year.
(21:41):
That's awesome. That it sounds like that's choosing the right people that have that drive inside of them. Right. So can we talk about choosing the right people?
(21:51):
Yeah. So absolutely. And it's a challenge too for business owners right now, the job market is really a challenge. There's not a lot of people that are, are unemployed and the ones that are, they, you know, it's only like, I think it's like less than 3%, or it's around 3% now, which is unbelievable. And a lot of people, they got out of the, the workforce during Covid and they decided not to go back in. So it's Slim Pickens. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And the pay rates are really high right now, which is great for employees. It's a little harder for small business owners. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. I, I, I, I can tell you, like, give you tips to go online and ask the right questions, but the thing about that is, is that when you go online and you, you look at the questions, your, your potential candidate can do the same thing.
(22:47):
So, right. It's very hard to interview somebody. You think you got the perfect person. But if they've been coached really well in an interview, the interview answers could be polished. Right. And there's, there's questions like tell me about a time you failed. And then you see if they took accountability for that. Right. Or tell me about your first job. And you see if they have an entrepreneurial spirit and started mowing lawn when they were 12 and things like that. But people know these things now. And I see you smiling in a way, like, yeah, I've heard that one before. Because we've all heard these
(23:20):
Well, I, I did it <laugh>, I thought was that person.
(23:24):
Absolutely. so you still might get some people on your team that aren't a good fit. And I don't wanna say bad people because I think I think it's really about fit. 'cause I've had some employees that they worked for me and they didn't fit our culture and our work environment, but they left and they went to another work environment and they did phenomenally well, and the very opposite where somebody didn't do well in one culture and they came to us and they, they were super successful. So I, I think getting the right fit is important. When you hire people, you have to determine if they're a good fit as soon as possible. And, and getting, I, I was reading something many years ago about Google and how they give these crazy tests to hire new people. Yeah. And they found that there's zero connection between somebody who did really well on the test and somebody who was successful at their company. So the, these crazy tests were just a farce and they became legendary and they didn't work. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So if Google can't figure this out, how can a small business owner figure this out?
(24:33):
Good point.
(24:34):
Yeah. So what I can tell you is that when you get something on the team, as soon as you realize they're not a good fit, cut the cord and get rid of them. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And of course, you know, you wanna make sure they're trained, they understand the position, they're being communicated well. And in the book I owe saying, you know, there's usually only three reasons I don't fire somebody. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And it's either because I'm lazy, chicken, or delusional. Right. And lazy. Lazy, because you gotta do all these job interviews and then you gotta train somebody and give 'em all that historical knowledge, chicken. Because even though you don't maybe fit well with the person that you have, hiring somebody new and unknown is really scary. It's like, at least the person, you know, you know all their flaws and you know what's going on, the next person could be worse. True. And then delusional, maybe the person hasn't gotten their job in the past three years, but maybe in the next week they'll finally get it. But it usually doesn't happen. And so, I I So
(25:36):
Going back to that, is there like a gut feel that you had that you didn't listen to
(25:41):
Before that? Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And I, you know, I always, when I do have to terminate an employee or when they leave, I always think about the interview process. And if there was something, there was some little voice in me that was like, Hey, you know, and that I didn't listen to. And I think we don't listen to that voice near nearly enough. Mm-Hmm.
(26:02):
<Affirmative> across the board. Actually there's, I just came out of a function with Tony Robbins and he says that we only rise to the level of our standards. And if our standards are low a good way to tell that is if we're tolerating a lot, you know? Exactly. Yeah. And so when, where we tolerate is where that's the, the bottom, we'll just hit it. That's the bottom of our standard. And when we stop tolerating, tell ourselves the truth, and just cut that cord, just make that leap, just do it. Our standards can rise.
(26:36):
Yeah. You get what you're willing to put up with. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And if you're laying awake at night and you're frustrated and you're like, God darn, these employees are, it's not the employees. They're showing up. And if you have an employee that's not a good fit, they're showing up and they're not doing the job you want them to do. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And you're paying them. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So you have to look in the mirror. The problem is with you for allowing somebody to not meet your standards.
(27:05):
Yeah. So can you take us into a time where you've had those courageous conversations and it's worked out like sometimes, like you say, as leaders, we are not giving our employee the right resources or putting them in the right position, or, you know, something that we can, when we have that courageous conversation, go, oh, okay, well let's try this out instead. And then it turns into this amazing, like, breakthrough for everyone. And you wouldn't have had that if you just kept telling yourself the story of the pain.
(27:32):
Yeah. So I had this this young employee and he was phenomenal. He was just such a great employee. But every Monday when he would come to his check-in, he didn't have his work done. And, and it was very frustrating because we were counting on him getting certain things done, and he was always behind on his work. And so there was kind of a tendency to feel like, you know, what's wrong with this kid? And, and that would have probably been my gut instinct would be just to be kind of off because he didn't get his work done Right. But I realized that he was working too much. It wasn't that he was not working enough to accomplish this stuff. It was the problem that he overpromised. Mm. And so coach through coaching getting him comfortable with being able to push back and say no on deadlines and getting him comfortable to push back on his team members helped him actually be able to honor his commitments.
(28:38):
Because he would say, like, during a meeting, he was so eager to please, we'd say, okay, who wants to do this? And he would raise his hand and say, I do, I'll do it. I'll do it. And he would say it like 10 times during the meeting. And so we'd, we'd put all these things on his plate, then he would leave the meeting. And he was known for being that guy that would help with anything. So there would be a line at his door with people saying, Hey, can you help me with this? Things that he wasn't even responsible for doing. And he was incredibly overworked, really distraught, not getting enough done. And a lot of times in situations like that, and I think business owners fall into that category too, where we're like, we're not able to finish the jobs that we need to do on time, and we automatically think we need to work harder, we need to work longer hours. When really we just need to promise less. We need to stop volunteering for everything. Stop saying, we're gonna get that done tomorrow when there's no way in how we are gonna be able to get it done tomorrow. It's gonna take maybe a couple weeks or a month. Right. And once he started feeling comfortable and confident being able to push back, 'cause he felt kind of like he needed to prove himself and say he could do it. Right. he, he just became such a better employee.
(29:54):
That's wonderful. I bet he slept better at night too. <Laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. I, I find my own my own curiosity. When I hear people say, I'm overwhelmed or I'm burnout, or things like that. I wonder how many of those people, people fall into that same category as this young man.
(30:10):
Absolutely.
(30:10):
Saying yes to so many things. And
(30:13):
Overachievers do it a lot. Yeah. Yeah.
(30:16):
And we fool ourselves. We believe we can, you know, we have the desire and the want. Yet where's that time management and commitment management that we need to also put in frame?
(30:26):
Yeah. So one time I told my business coach, I was like, you know, once I get these last few projects done, then I, I can take a deep breath and my life will get so much calmer. And he said, who are you kidding? You know, you're gonna take on a bunch more projects right after that. And I thought about, I was like, yeah, yeah. You're probably right. <Laugh>.
(30:45):
Yeah. They're already waiting at the door <laugh> to, to be on your plate. So I was curious if you can give us some advice and some of your experience of being not only the CEO of a, you know, $40 million plus company and the team. How many people are employed with three-man movers? Currently
(31:04):
We have about a hundred trucks on the road. And so we've got about a hundred drivers, and then they have two helpers. And then in the office we have about about 40, 45 employees in the office.
(31:16):
That's amazing. Congratulations. Thank you. For people who haven't risen to that, it's, it's not only we could say it's a lot of work, but it's just this big container of amazement. Right. <laugh>, it's like just so much there. I had a firm that was over 300 employees and there were dispersed in many countries. And I was like, wow. And I could wake up anytime during the night and get on a business meeting if I chose with the people in different countries that, that took a lot of boundaries. <Laugh>.
(31:42):
Yeah.
(31:42):
Absolutely. then, you know, this is, you know, your work and your career and this, this mission, this passion, and you're also a mom and a wife. And you have your own, you know, for yourself, your own, you know, you know, how do I take care of me? Can you help us understand how you pull that all together? And is it habitual? Is it time blocking? You know, what, what works for Jackie?
(32:04):
Well, one of the things is having an empowered team. If you have an empowered team that really own their job, when you go home at night, you can go home and relax. 'cause You know, they own their work. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, when you go on vacation, your phone's not gonna blow up. 'cause They know they've been empowered to make decisions on their own and they can handle their, their job properly. A lot of times you see small business bon owners and they're at lunch and their phone keeps ringing and they keep, you know, having to get on the phone. I went to The Bahamas for two months January and February of this year, and I worked maybe 16 hours a week on the phone. But the rest of the time, I, I really enjoyed myself. I read a lot of good books and hung out on the beach and went fishing.
(32:47):
But I was allowed to do that because I have a really strong team that has my back. So that's, that's one of the most important things. And then from there, really choosing to spend time with your kids. Now, both my kids are grown now but I remember the car rides to drop 'em off at school, and I miss those times, but, Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, a lot of times business owners use the car time to make phone calls. Right. That's your phone call time. So you do all your work in the office, you're on your computer, and then you're like, I'm gonna make these three business calls while I'm in the car. So you jump in the car and you start making phone calls, really cutting that time out for your kids because it's precious time. And you can talk to your kids on the way to school and talk to 'em on the way home.
(33:33):
Dinner times no technology at dinner, dinner time. So creating like little, it is almost like a at home process of like, these are gonna be our times where we don't have screen time. These are gonna be our times where we communicate and we talk to each other. I've, I, I love to cook. Not everybody likes to cook, but it, it, I find that it helps me unwind. So when I get home now my kids are grown. They don't live with me. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But when I get home, I make dinner every night for my husband. We sit down and we have a meal together. And then we have that morning coffee where 20 minutes he brings me a cup of coffee. And there's something about when somebody hands you a cup of coffee Yeah. And feels like such a gift. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And then we have our coffee in the morning and talk about our day. So it's carving those special moments out. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> because, you know, you, you've heard the old adage about what's more valuable time or money. It's definitely time. 'cause You can't make it back. So really the most important thing is giving your time to the people you care about and you love.
(34:35):
Yeah. I love it. What are the, what's the vision and the, the next level for three men movers? Where are you taking the company?
(34:42):
Well we've had some offers to buy us out and it's not something that I, I want to do. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> I, both my kids see how stressful running a business is. Neither one of them wanna do it. <Laugh>. And I, and that's okay. That's okay. They, they can find their happiness else elsewhere. So I'm looking at some structures to do an employee ownership with, with my employees. 'cause I think that it seems like the right fit for me. So that's what I'm working on right now.
(35:14):
Oh, congratulations. I've seen many businesses thrive in that esop, you know, type of structure, employee ownership they assume the, the, the torch, so to speak and continue to run with it. So I wish you the best. Thank you. And in the growth paradox I know that you're, you're helping business owners understand how to get there. It's <laugh> know, know how to get out of their own way. Yeah. So what would be some of the, the bigger takeaways you want our listeners to say, you know, you're, you're a leader, you're a self leader first. We, we lead ourselves first. We lead our teams, and then we lead our vision and our mission and our passion. What are those things that, you know, you wanna have our wonderful listeners know that they're capable of what the growth paradox?
(36:00):
I think your team is capable of much more than you give 'em credit for. I, I used to have conference meet business meetings with business groups at my office, and they would come to me and say, wow, your, your team's amazing. They're wonderful. And it's true. My, I do have a really good team, but I think a lot of times other businesses have a great team too, but they don't feel empowered, so they're not doing the amazing things that they could do because they're kind of a little scared to, to even try because if they make a mistake, they might get in trouble or, you know, they, they just kind of wait to be told what to do. Yeah. And if, if you want to foster a culture of, of risk takers and innovation and all of that, you have to be willing to allow your team to fail. You have to be okay with it. You have to let people make their own decisions. And this type of, of, of relationship that you have with your team that's gonna help you scale your company. Mm-Hmm.
(37:03):
<Affirmative>, that's beautiful. And, and you hit on a very like common point that I hear with business owners is that they believe that their team are just task masters. You know, like, what, why can't they think on their own? Why are they bringing everything to me? Can't they just solve it on their own? But what I'm also hearing and knowing is that, you know, you've trained them to be that because of that fear.
(37:28):
And it's a win-win situation when your teammate brings you a problem and throws it on your desk. A lot of times both parties feel good about the dysfunction because the, the employee that brings you the monkey and puts it on your back, they're, they're getting out of the responsibility of making a decision. Because if you tell 'em what to do, you, you've really take taken responsibility If it, if it goes left, mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But you always, you also take the responsibility if it works out, and you get to take the glory in it too. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So you basically taken any responsibility they have for the decision or
(38:10):
Reward,
(38:11):
And then secondarily Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> when you make a decision for an employee, you feel like you've helped 'em. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and a lot of business owners, they, they love helping people. So they wanna get, they see somebody struggling, they wanna rush over and, and fix it. And, and it's pretty easy. They've been there before. They know exactly how to solve that problem. And it fills this kind of need of like, I'm being very helpful. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> when in fact you're, you're really kind of taking, taking their ability to be accountable away from them. Mm-Hmm.
(38:41):
<Affirmative>, that's beautiful. It reminds me of a time where my son was younger and he brought home this piece of art from his classroom, and I was very impressed by it. He, you know, whenever I drew I would, you know, leave, it's a white background, and then I'd put the house and the tree and the birds and all that kinda stuff there. He filled the entire eight and a half by 11 piece of paper with every, the blue sky was all blue. So it was just really impressive. And I, you know, just, and I enjoyed seeing it. However, I paused whenever he showed it to me because he wanted, you know, say, here, mom, what do you think? And my pause was, I said, well, Michael, what do you think? And, and he said, I think it's great. I said, well, tell me what you think is great about it.
(39:22):
Tell me about your process. What'd you do here? How'd you think about this? How did you approach it? And even as a, he was probably eight years old at the time, he knew his processes and he knew his thinking. He knew what was, you know, his outcome. And I more I was more fulfilled by listening to his impression of himself than what I would've said. And my concern is, had I said like many parents do and leaders, right? Absolutely. We say, we say, good job, great job. But we don't allow the person to own their process and their own thinking. Which, like you said, it makes them them responsible to you and your approval as opposed to themselves in their own.
(40:03):
Yeah. That's such a great story. And, and you see kids who are like, look at me, look at me. And they want that validation every time they do something. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. I, I think that's a, a wonderful story. And, and which can be applied to the workforce as well.
(40:19):
Yeah. I ask my, you know, my employees, it's like, well, what is going right? What do you think your next step would be if you were to make this decision? I wasn't here. What would that decision be? And then I'd say, if they're on the right track, or I'd say, you need to think a little bit different. Well take this into consideration or this into consideration, then just think through that and what would be the next step.
(40:37):
Yeah. That's great. Great advice.
(40:39):
Yeah. There's I wanted to get your since you came back from the Bahamas and Red I wanna know what books or podcasts you, you have your own personal addiction with. And one I wanna mention, 'cause it sounds like you may have read this, or at least you're touching some key points and is The One Minute Manager, which was a, a book that I read a long time ago. And it's like a thin read, you know, it probably takes time.
(41:02):
Yeah, I've seen that one. I might even have it on my shelf somewhere. Uhhuh. I, I, I don't think I've read it, but I, I think I have that book.
(41:08):
It's pretty amazing. So the one manager would be one that I'd say, Hey, take a note. Look. And what would be your advice on our, you know, book lists or podcast list to, to expand ourselves?
(41:19):
So Kind. I, okay.
(41:21):
Besides the Growth Paradox, first off. Right. So <laugh> Yes.
(41:24):
Yeah. And I've read that book way too many times 'cause they make you edit the heck out of things. I, it took me a couple weeks to write it and it took me a couple years to edit it, so it was, was stressful. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So I kind of, I kind of go between nonfiction and fiction. So fiction is my joy. I love reading fiction. Wonderful. And there's this author, and I cannot pronounce his name, but he wrote Cutting For Stone, and he wrote The Covenant of Water. And it's, it's pretty intense heavy books, but it's really, really good. So I really I just read another one of his books. And then reading business books. I read a recent one called Simplify, and I can't think of the writer's name. I think he's British. And it was an interesting, it was kind of like an MBA book style. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. It wasn't an easy read, but it was a very interesting read. And his premises, there's only two ways to run a business. Either you simplify the pricing or you simplify the, the way you purchase. So like, Amazon is like simplified per purchase. You just hit a button and you purchase it. So they were explaining that business con concept. So I thought that was pretty interesting too. Pretty cool.
(42:38):
Yeah. and you are in a competitive market, you know, I am.
(42:42):
I, I think sometimes though I need a break from business books here. I wrote one, I'm telling everybody, don't worry, busy. But I, I really like reading fiction. I think it, it sort of stimulates like the creative part of my brain. Mm-Hmm. And I think it creates empathy because you get to hear about different people and what they're going through. True. So I I, I do love,
(43:01):
I love fiction as well. The, the one that stands out for me right now is a book called The Midnight Library. And I also cannot remember the name of the author, but I remember the title. Right.
(43:12):
I'll put that in my list.
(43:13):
The Midnight Library. And it just br brought a deeper appreciation for this thing called life.
(43:20):
Yes. So when I had the book launch at the Brazos bookstore, they gave me, they said, you're an employee for the day. You get 35% off all the books. Wow. So I walked out of there with like books up to my chin. I was like, carrying loads of books out to the car. So I've got a ton of stuff to read.
(43:35):
That's awesome. Hey man, that's a way to do the book launch. I love it. Yeah,
(43:39):
Absolutely. It was a great perk.
(43:41):
Cool. Well, everyone, I want you to take another note and I want you to add Jackie Fisher to your list of mentors to follow her lead and to follow what she's done and to just, we have empathy in knowing that where we start and where we're headed, it's not going to be an easy road. We don't think any of us sign up for easy. We sign up for growth and we say, let's, let's become something better of ourselves every single day. And that's what the Growth Paradox will give you. So I want you to go to Amazon and go ahead and check out Growth Paradox dot the Growth Paradox book. And I want you to write down jackie fisher.com. And it's J-A-C-K-Y-F-I-S-C-H-E r.com. Jackie fisher.com. She's a, a joy. Another thing I wanted to give you kudos on is I love how you put so much color into yourself. You're a very colorful person in, in a world where we can have neutrals and dims and blacks and all that kind of stuff. I wore my, my fun shirt today just for you. Oh, it, it's beautiful. I love your color. I love the color you bring into your life in a world that could feel like it's muted.
(44:45):
Yeah. I was very attracted to that little thing on your back wall. I don't know if it's a card or a picture with the rainbow on
(44:51):
It. That is all for one. All for love and all. And love for all. So yeah, the rainbow.
(44:59):
It's wonderful.
(45:00):
Thanks, <laugh>. I knew you'd be attracted to Color Everywhere. Right. <laugh>, thank you so much for being our guest today on Ignite Your Leadership and for igniting your leadership, and then also the leadership of those people that you serve and you bring into your company. I'm so grateful for you and, and definitely being in our market and you're a brand that we can champion and get behind. You're doing a great job. Thank you so much. Thank you.
(45:23):
Thank you very much.