#1: Offloading - How unlocking your team’s capacity creates true engagement and leads to better results With Frans Van Loef

Bio:

Frans van Loef is an Amsterdam-based executive coach and expert on managing human capacity in organizations. He works with leaders and teams to accelerate strategy execution with two key focus areas: offloading and unlocking capacity. His new book "Offload" will be published spring 2024.

Social Media: 

Frans Van Loef's Linkedin

Websites: 

Frans Van Loef's Website

Email all podcast inquiries to: hello@bonfirecoaching.com

Transcription:

(00:02):

Hello, and welcome to Ignite Your Leadership. I'm your host, Tina Ree Saints here. And every week we get to sit together and learn from amazing experts in our world who are out there helping leaders become better, creating efficiencies, having new ways of thinking and innovating what we know is the lifeblood of accelerated progress through leaders. And so today, I have an amazing guest and a dear friend. We're gonna have an amazing conversation, and I'm so glad you're here with us to also participate in Add Your Energy. Let me introduce our guest. And first our topic. We're gonna be talking about a concept known as offloading. Have I got your interest yet? Yes, I do. So you're gonna learn how to reduce the workload for yourself, dear leaders and your team, and why that's so important. Our guest, Franz Van Laf, he is from Amsterdam. You're gonna love his accent.

(01:00):

I do. He's an executive coach that helps people manage human capacity. Now he works with leaders and teams to accelerate strategy execution with two key focus arenas, one, offloading and unlocking capacity. His new book Offload will be published this year, and I can't wait to get my hands on it. So I thought I'd bring him on soon before the launch. And let's tap into his wisdom. So you are ready to go to the press and buy his book like I am. So Franz, thank you so much for being our guest here on Ignite Your Leadership today.

(01:38):

It's wonderful to be here and really good to see you again, Marie and I, I, I must say the way you introduced me, I couldn't do it that well myself, <laugh>.

(01:47):

Well, you know, you've got an amazing history. You do so much great work in the world for organizations. I really am so glad that we're bringing your brilliance to our show and to our listeners, because leadership, we know it's hard at the end of the day, you know, we wanna, you know, move up the ladder inside of our organizations. We wanna be leaders. We have that inner calling to help people and move projects ahead, yet it's work. And you know, sometimes people don't understand the many spinning plates that are going on for their supervisors, the directors or VPs, their executives, because we need to make it look good, right? Yeah. We need to keep it all going. Make it look good. Yet what you are doing is, is an intimate approach to help them understand how to articulate a, a problem set that we don't tend to talk about. And so that's my first question I wanna open with why is offloading first, I'm gonna have you explain that. What's offloading and then why is it not focus that we hear companies even prioritizing,

(02:48):

You know offloading. I think, I think it, it, it, it, it started for me when I was CEO myself, you know, I was you know, I was always thinking about new ideas. I'm quite a out of the box thinker. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And I could also really kind of you know, inspire and get my teams excited about new stuff and a little detail. I had no clue what I was asking. I mean, I had a clue about the id, but I had no clue if I was asking a huge effort or just something that they just could, you know, more or less do take along. So basically what I mean by with offloading is that you have to, you know, quicker and more get rid of stuff because we are nonstop adding, we are adding initiatives, we are adding tools, we are adding structures, we are adding information. You just name it, it, we are not, so, I say we are not so comfortable and not so conscious about, you know, you, you can't keep adding. You also have to get, get rid of sound because you get totally stuck. Or people, you know, drop out, get burn out, anything you can imagine, right?

(03:49):

We hear that all the time. Overwhelm, burnout. The great people of our teams leaving, you know, it's almost like they just wanna, like, I imagine people are underwater finally, and they're going 3, 2, 1, help. Like, help. I, I'm outta here, man. So this offloading cons, when did it hit you? Was, was this something that just came like a bright light one night, or you just started realizing we've gotta do something different?

(04:18):

I think it came up, but I can't, I can't say it exactly after I screwed up twice, you know, and what I mean, what I meant by it, that I was just totally overloading the organization I was running. And, and then all of a sudden, you know, I started to question myself. I mean, why don't we make progress on things that really matters to us, or we really wanna make progress on it? Because it, in the end, it looks like everyone is just totally covered with the day-to-day stuff, right? And then I, I would think about it. I had like offsite meetings with my teams and we discussed it, and we did touch anything you can imagine, but we did not never, you know, touch your topic, but maybe we should also get rid of some stuff, you know, because we are working with people who are loaded to capacity and then we come with what we think is a small additional request. But it's nothing like that. But that was, I think over time, it, it started to become more clear to me. It still took me quite a while before I also did basically uncover two things, you know, which are signals of people are watching today. And one is, there is so much in organizations going on, which you can stop overnight. You know, we just, we just don look up. We don't look for these things, you know, we are only looking for new

(05:34):

Things. Such, such as what, can you give us an example?

(05:37):

Oh, you know, I, I, I can give you a number of things, you know pick three different kind of, I, you know, one is kind of an, a project that's just is running with, is running nowhere. And if you ask the participants, they'll all tell you they don't want us asking the questions. So they just keep working it. Tool is introduced with the old one is not removed. So what's happening, all of a sudden people are using the old tool, other people are using a new tool. Then people try to combine the two of them. It's about information. Now, there is also the information are, you know, shared within the organization. But lot of people say, we should, we should stop at certain things. Right? There, there an incredible number of examples you can imagine that that you, you can stop overnight.

(06:25):

So that was the first recovery. And then the second one was that I did find out from it, you can basically remove it or get rid of it much quicker than I anticipated. Because the first thing I thought, oh, all these routines and stuff, it's going to take months before you can. Right? But if you, if you can, you know, if you discuss this with your people, and the key thing is the key question is what are we going to do with the capacity that basically we free up Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Because if you don't ask that question, people will, it's maybe Dutch way of saying it. They will go to, they will go to page three of that to-do list where, where normally they will never have to take a look at and imagine that they're going do suffer from that page. So you have to be also really clear, what are we going to do with basically capacity we can unlock?

(07:10):

Right? That's brilliant. That's brilliant. It, it's kind of strange. This, this reminds me of it's a a habit or just like an agreement I have with myself when I clean out my closet, literally. Yeah. Yeah. And so when, or when I buy something new or I want something new, I have an agreement that one thing has to go. So if I'm bringing something in, something has to go. Yes. So I had a, I have a set amount of hangers, <laugh>, that's it.

(07:37):

Yeah. I did really, I love it.

(07:40):

Yeah. And then whenever I clean out my closet, I have more capacity. I keep the same hangers. Yeah. But I can't go over the amount of hangers I have in my, in my specific area of the closet <laugh>.

(07:51):

Yeah. It's, it's a brilliant example. I, I love it, you know? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, it's, it, it's, you know, it's, it's something that I started to use, you know, with, with clients and I, I call it the shelf space principle. And imagine we were going to visit the supermarket this afternoon, and let's assume that we stop at the shelf space where they sell tea. Okay? And if there's an empty spots on that shelf, it's not because they don't sell anything, but maybe the product is, you know, is sold out or there's a whatever, production failure. But, so there's never free space. So what does it mean if you like to introduce a new sort of tea on the Supermar shelf? You first have to remove one. And basically that's the same with you are just saying. And what we also have to do much more in organizations, it's fine to come up with a new idea with what are we going to remove before we're going to start it? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And this, this is a very simple, very strong principle. You can, you can apply immediately.

(08:53):

I would have to imagine that emotions get involved here.

(08:57):

It it does, you know, it does. But, but I think you always have to bring it back to what is the benefit from doing it. Because if I, I, I say maybe it's a stupid remark, you know, but I say, you know, it'll rarely happen that people introduce stupid stuff in organizations. So more or less, everything that's there makes sense, right? However, if it's too much or there's something that is better because you were not aware of it, you know, a month ago Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, you still have to learn that you, you know, there's nothing wrong with getting rid of something and make room for something that's better or more relevant at the moment. Mm-Hmm.

(09:33):

<Affirmative>, have you been in a client situation, organizational, where there's like even argument on each side of something that is possible to go to be offloaded? And, and how do you help them prioritize what does get offloaded so that they can see clearly the cost benefit, the productivity benefit on the other side?

(09:56):

I know I, you know, basically that boils down to how do we make decisions, you know, in a team or an organization. And surprisingly, and I, I guess in your own, you know, rich experience, you will have faced the same situation. But it's, it's remarkable how many teams, if you ask you how do you make decisions as a team, you don't get a clear answer. You say, well, we, we just start discussing, you know, or we just talk. Or, or maybe some, someone is a little bit more extrovert, so we'll more or less drive the direction in a certain area. But one of the final things about decision making is that we, we all have a kind of set of criteria in our own minds. But if we don't share them, I have no clue. For example, if we are together in team, I have no clue. I mean, how do you look to something we have to make a decision on? Right? And you have no, no idea. I look, so the first thing is basically to try to, to agree on, okay, what, what are limited number of criteria we are going to use to make a decision? And that's already a very talent starting point. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And a lot of that doesn't happen.

(10:57):

That's beautiful. A second,

(10:59):

A second tool. You know what, what also helps a lot. And that's something that I learned from I, I read it in a book about Jeff Bezos. You know, how he, in his early days already, you know, he was wondering about, Amazon was growing so quickly and he wanted to stay disruptive. So one of the key things to think about is how do we make sure that the decision making doesn't slow down? And because you're getting more layers of management and everything you can imagine. So he introduced a one-way door, two-way door decision making. I know if you heard about,

(11:32):

I haven't a one-way door or a two-way door.

(11:35):

Yes. A one-way door and two-way door decision making. And basically what it, what it means is a one way door. Basically, it's, it's the word already says it. That's something you can go from one side to the other side, which it's not easy to return. So what does it mean that are decisions which are really asking, you know, much more in depth thinking and research discussions, so that are not overnight discussions. So that's clear. You know, you need, you need time. You have to involve people. There's lots of things to, however, two-way organizations are decisions that you can immediately you know re move back to the old situation. And one very interesting thing is that there are a lot of things that you can basically you know, see as a two-way door decision to say, well, we should stop with it.

(12:23):

Because if somehow things change, you can return. And it give you an example, you know, I've, I've, when I was the CEO, there was a number of projects where we, at some point in time, we felt we're not sure if this still really is relevant, you know, or, or, or, and the same time we, we, we were looking for scarf capacity. So there are a few that we said, well, just let's put 'em on hold. Well, the good news was that most things that we did put on hold, we would stop. There you go. Anyway. So, however, sometimes there was you know, something that happened or some, some circumstances changes, and then we said, Hey, now it looks like this project is relevant again. And, and we would, we would pick it up again. And I mean, overnight we would start it again. You know,

(13:04):

It's almost like it, it sounds like it would have new passion in that regard as well.

(13:08):

It is, it is. Because we used something fuels that you say, okay, let's, let's go for it again. Mm-Hmm. But so too, too often that's, it is one of the, I think one of the most challenging thing for a lot of people. It, it's it's hard to imagine that if you say no to something that it doesn't may know forever. Right? I think something else you can do it. And, and this if, if you kind of see this or you start to kind of just experience with it it brings a lot of comfort because then you realize there's so much where you can say, okay, you know, offload is not, and, and most of it is really good that you do it. It's something you have to turn back on the table. And that's no problem.

(13:50):

That's beautiful. I've worked in engineering firms. I've owned an engineering firm. And there were certain personalities that, you know, sometimes we get really bought into the work we do as part of our identity. And whenever we challenge someone to, you know, like you said earlier, create a new tool or use a new tool, or have a new approach or, or maybe offload it to a, a third party that's now gonna be, you know, more responsible for it than an internal organization. I see sometimes the personalities want to, you know, they tie into their identity, the work that they create. Yeah. Have you run across this as well in the facilitation that you do with organizations?

(14:33):

I'm not sure if I'll say this question. Can you repeat once more?

(14:36):

Have like, people get connected to the work they do. Yeah. Yeah. Projects, they do the, the, the achievements they make within the organization. And sometimes, at least in the states, we even hear the term, you know, that's my baby. Like, a project can be my baby. What I, what I experienced, especially in some of my clients where we were, I didn't use the term offloading, but I needed some capacity from people to work on new projects. Yeah. And they didn't wanna let the old things go because they were so tied into their ownership of it, their creative spark in it. Have you ever run into where, you know, this is, you know, we can think it's tactical, we can think this is a logical, tactical approach of looking at capacity and numbers and whatnot, but in my experience with especially engineers that were the creators of these, you know, systems there can be a bit of you know, a a different level of communication that needs to happen.

(15:38):

Yeah. No, I, I think you hit one of the maybe two or three key reasons, which makes it more difficult. The one you say, I, I definitely run into it quite frequently. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And I'm not going to say there's just an easy solution to it. However, you know, what, what is I, I like first to, to, to say that most things that you can offload are things where which also at best basically create like neutral energy. A lot of, you know, for example, take a project or you say, you know, things are not moving, or we are, we're not aligned. It doesn't happen that, you know, already a lot of people start to check out. There's always someone who still says, oh, I believe it, or whatever. So the fir the first thing is to, to kind of try to, with a person like that, to really see from, not only from how she or he think about, don't say, okay, but the people you, you, you need to, to make the success.

(16:37):

Where are they, you know, are, do they also feel like it's made or are they different? And that's sometimes a confrontation, you know, because pe some people who the more you love it, the more I, I, I know how you say it in proper English, but the more you love it, the more you also will kind of be blind, you know? Because you'll maybe be less aware of how people around you. The second thing is always to also help people understand that there is to other also really great stuff, which they can play a really important role, you know, because I say one of the things that nowadays people, a lot of people are looking for I mean, do I still add value to what's happening here? You know, how, how do I make conclusions? So that's an angle, and you can really, can really help. And and the the last thing, sometimes you, you just have to ask them to give it the benefits of the doubt. You know, you say, I, I understand that still we have to make decision right now to, to, to change. Yeah. So

(17:32):

It's basically saying, trust me,

(17:35):

It is, it is, but it, it, so I I'm not going to shade like golden bullet, how you can get everyone across line. One other thing I like to add immediately, another thing that makes something difficult to stop is that it's more, that's also psychological thing that this people are of a number of people who kind of feel like, if I stop, it's like failure. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, you know, like, like people, one of the most dangerous, basically characteristics of, of, of, of managed execut is when when they say, I, I never give up. I mean, never give up can be extremely dangerous in companies, right? It doesn't mean that you have to be easily, okay, you know, let's change today and tomorrow we change again. But the other side is people who can be too stubborn with it. They can also be very, very dangerous from the future of, yeah.

(18:27):

Yeah. And so

(18:29):

A question for you, Uhhuh <affirmative> right on the spot, if you would think about your, your current, you know, work with your organization Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, would you think about something that you say, well, I think of something we could all flow tomorrow? Mm-Hmm.

(18:41):

<Affirmative>. And that's something, thank you for that. Since I've met you, <laugh>, actually since I've met you, it's part of the process now. In fact, in our, it's not a regular team meeting, like every Monday team meeting. Yeah. But I have this filter that I look through the, the tasks or the projects at hand, and I have this back of mind query. Is this still needed? Yeah. Is what we're doing here still needed? And so one thing that we're redesigning is our utilization report, which is a report that we use to guide the, the capacity, attention focus for ourselves and our clients on a weekly basis. So just a couple weeks ago, I'm looking at it with different eyes, almost through the Franz eyes. And I was like, I don't think we track all this information anymore, not using it. So it's almost back to that clause analogy, like, what pieces of cling have I not worn in a year? And so if I look at the utilization report, I'm like, I don't think I've even read this column in a year. And I don't even know what it's trying to convey to me, but it's on the report. Yeah. And so what we did is we, I think we, we annihilated or moved three of the columns off, and we're replacing those columns now with needed information that will be instrumental Yeah. For making strategic decisions.

(20:02):

Yeah. Wow. That's interesting. Yeah. And one other, one other question also to, you know, to kind of share together also from your experience this is a question maybe you maybe just have to guess, but, but can you give me an estimate of how many new people and you meet on a whatever in, in a, in a month or in three months estimate? What do you think? Really new people,

(20:27):

<Crosstalk> for myself, how many new people I meet.

(20:29):

Yeah. Yeah.

(20:31):

I network a lot <laugh>.

(20:33):

That's, that's what I know. That's why I

(20:35):

Ask you. So I probably meet in a conservative sense, at least 20 new people in a, in a, in a three month timeframe.

(20:46):

Okay. That's a, that's a nice number. So my next question is, how many of those 20 people would you love to spend more time with?

(20:55):

Hmm. Good, good point there. Maybe one <laugh>, nobody take offense, <laugh>, that's listening to this because they know all the new, well, it's not just spend time with, it's have the, like you said, the capacity to hold information and move that information along to create an outcome together.

(21:17):

Yeah. But here it comes. That's also why I say, because this is maybe something that people will not think of immediately about offloading, but you also have to offload connections. Or very simply, it sounds, it sounds maybe as a very bad thing to say, how I explain, you know, you, you and I know, I know you very well, but people who are, who are always interested, who like to learn new stuff, who like to meet new people. I mean, you always will meet new people, but how can you deal with it if you try to stay connected with everyone, you know, already at the moment? Right. So here it's, I think many of us have the experience that there are always still people somehow around who, if you're really honest to yourself, and also them, they think, well, you know, for me it's, they're more like an energy drain than something I look forward to it.

(22:05):

Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> or, you know, they always cold, but there's never anything like happening or whatever. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But it also here is that often we don't think about it from, sometimes we should just really disconnect. And that's, it maybe sounds hard, but what I mean that I, I, I mean, I know at some point of time that if I, you know, I kind of look for myself because I was, I had met a lot of people. I said, oh, I would love to spend more time with this person, and this is just like you, you know, I met you. And then I was think about their, that I think about, but who did I spend time over the last couple months? And then there were still easy 5, 6, 7 people. I said, why, why did I, again, spend time? Why, why did I say yes to this request raise from, shall we catch up?

(22:53):

Whatever? So this, this is maybe something that we don't think too much of, but it, same with, with, it's same like an organization. You, you can't connect with everyone. Right. But there are a lot of people to connect with you, but it doesn't always make sense to do it. It's just like an email. I mean, they can send you an email. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But that doesn't mean that you want to receive that email. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But this is just a totally different area. People often are not aware of, but it can be time and energy consuming

(23:19):

Completely. And it's a great analogy, at least that with email, you know, we can all connect with that, that inbox that we have. Yeah. And people can send us email, but I will tell them, I, I'm more than likely will not read your emails until Friday unless you put some caps in the subject line. So get my attention and let me know it's a priority. I also tell people that want me to read their email if they sent me something of a priority to text me as well. Yeah. So I'll say, text me that you just dropped something in my inbox, and I'll know it's a priority. Yeah, yeah. Because we, we are, in fact, I even say that information is the toxin of our age, and we are overload with information. Yeah. And projects, like you said, we are so innovative and creative and, you know, like Greenfield here, the, the problem is that there's the, we would feel like we're a hamster on a wheel if, if we just keep, you know, churning out productivity as opposed to quality. Right. So I was, I was, I was curious about, thank you for those questions, by the way. That was fun, <laugh>. Yeah. I was curious about could you share an experience of, of a client that you've come into and, you know, I was thinking maybe the worst client of course, change the name <laugh> and give us a scenario of, of the work you do once you're, you're in and, and, and how that look to the client and what maybe the outcome has been

(24:48):

I two different things that pop up to my mind, and maybe one is directly related to kind offload and work. And the other one is, anyway, it's also offload, but in different way. I'll explain them all. So about one thing that I learned, and I did really, you know, basically followed this trap a few times that you know, people reach out to me effectively, say, well, you know, s well, we heard something about you ex explain what are you really doing? How could you help us? And they say, yeah, yeah. We, it's absolutely situation here. You described, you know, we have too many initiatives at the same time. You know, people are overwhelmed. You know, we are switching nonstop from topics. And we talk all the time about priority adjustments and who's doing what. It's our only strong indications. And so, yeah, could you help us?

(25:36):

And what I didn't check properly, and that was one of my key learning is, but if, if this person, if we find out a number of things that were, where his team agrees, well, okay, we should stop this or at least postpone it or anything, is he going to do it? Is he really going to decide it? And so what did happen? We came up with great stuff, and then it turned out that he was not ready to make any decision at all. So what happened that people were looking at me and he said, oh, there one of those crap external guys consultants,

(26:12):

But reality is nothing change. So my lesson was that if someone, I first have to understand much better, why do you want to offload? And what are you going to do with it? What are the real benefits you look for? If the answer is not convincing to me, I don't go, I don't do it. I don't one lesson. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> another lesson that is, it's, well, there is an offload element that's not in the same sense. A few times I've been asked by my CEO, from, there's one person in my team, and I, you know, and I would really like to you, I would like you to work with this person because there is another, there are a few things where we, where I think that he or she should be improve in our team. And then I start working with, with the person, and then I did find out that the person was not really happy. Mm. And basically, the person didn't really fit the situation. And the, the, the, the outcomes were certainly always good that the, the person he or himself decided from, Hey, I should go look for different opportunity. And what I found out a few times, that was exactly why the CEO recruited me, but didn't tell me. But it's, they told me now, you know, there's few adjustments and they can

(27:32):

Ulterior motive <laugh>,

(27:33):

But then I didn't find out they, they used me. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> to offload and team member, you know, that's big of that. So then for me also learning to, to, so what I do nowadays, if, if I get a similar question, I always immediately ask, are you really, I really want make a success? Or are you just want to make sure that this person makes the right decision, which also can mean stepping out.

(27:58):

Right? Yeah. That's a different form of offloading, huh? <Laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. And, and a term that's

(28:05):

Loading every day.

(28:06):

Yeah. A term came through and it feels like you're helping people write load. Yeah. Which means really looking at their projects and their capacity and their, their, their wants not only a strategic level, but definitely a human level.

(28:25):

Yeah.

(28:26):

Yeah. And, you know, I don't think we take enough time to evaluate things.

(28:33):

And that's one thing. One other thing I'd like to, to bring to attention is that you know, with, even with offloading we are focusing very much on, in on the individual. And I think the real strength is if you look at collective offload, where you do this a team or as a part of organization, because what I see, and I, I know I, I guess you'll recognize the situation very often. I see that, for example, individual or some team members Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> you can tell them they're, they're overloaded. Yeah. And so usually what, what's happening at least or number of organization I work with in Europe, and then people are gonna say, oh, you know well, we have to take, we have to, you have to be really careful. We're going to help you. So we are going to offer you, I dunno if it's English word, and we, we have an a la card menu.

(29:24):

I know if that, if you understand the word. Yeah. And so there are few things, you know, we can send you to kind of mindfulness training. We can give you an individual coach. We can, we, we can all sort of things that can help you to find again, you know, a better work life balance. Right. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with it. However, you know, it is a little bit like I mean, I feel something is wrong in my body or whatever. And I go to, to the doctor and the doctor said, oh, F France, that's really bad. I'm going, I'm going to give you some medication and you're going to feel better, but he's not going to find out what's your problem, you know, or where it comes from. He just gives me something to treat basically the constant, but not to look for what causes it in organization.

(30:09):

It's the same, you know, because very often if you, if people are overloaded and there is an strong, basically cause in the organization and not in the person. Right. But, but, but why, why is it so difficult to, to understand this and why it's often a blind spot? It's because people don't they, they, they don't get overload at the same moment, or they don't fall in the kind of burnout situation the same day. So it's never recognized because it's not like all of a sudden it's Monday morning and you get from 11 team members a call. Well, I'm sorry, you know, my family doctor said I have to stay home for the next couple of weeks. But this is totally ignored in organizations after this, it's too much requested and you have to do something about that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And too often it's, oh, I'm going just to make sure that you, you feel okay. Yeah. I dunno if it's clear what I try to raise.

(31:04):

Yeah. It's because we get in a habit as individual contributors or even leaders when we're brought to the table of new projects, we wanna be part of that energy and we wanna say yes to things. Yeah. but I believe it's perceived as confrontational or it can feel quite uncomfortable to also raise the question, great, we're bringing this on board. I have this capacity for my team. What are we now allowed to set to the side? Yeah. So those questions, I don't, I think they need to be parlayed together. Like, and we wanna, we need to empower our leaders that whenever there is a new initiative, when there's a new directive, when there's an increase of requirement for whatever, that you also get the chance to say, what are we going to offload or set to the side or not have, be as high a priority as it's been in the past.

(31:59):

Yeah. To give you one thing that, that maybe you can also immediately benefit from yourself working with teams. Eh, usually when I start with teams if, if it's really a kind of quest for, for we, we have to offload here for a number of reasons. And usually when I have kind of first session with the team, I, I, I start with basically two questions to all individual members. I say, you know, take a few minutes about at least one thing that we should stop as a team.

(32:30):

Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>.

(32:30):

And think about one thing that you should stop yourself. And you know what's interesting ri everyone can, all the spots say stuff that others should stop <laugh>. I mean, it takes five seconds and the first six seconds, but to say something that you should stop yourself, that's a difference. A cup of tea

(32:52):

<Laugh>, it's like, whoa, that's personal. Yeah.

(32:54):

And, and that's exactly why I raised why I raised a question, because you get a way more objective basically picture, and you get immediately good discussion. You know, because it's, it's not like an offensive thing, but it's really looking together and, and helping each other. Right. Hey, but this is really something we should do or is a good reason why could, we could offload it. But it's always interesting. You have to start with a collective thing because otherwise people always say, I agree, but not on my plate. Right. On my plate. There's no nothing we can get rid of. Yeah.

(33:25):

You know, I see it all the time.

(33:27):

Yeah. You know, as an, as an other, you know, someone else you much who challenge you or see it doesn't really matter what's happening there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, it's also about the baby. Say you said, because I, I'm never going to, to to show this baby for me. You Mm-Hmm. We should get rid of it. That someone else could say, your baby. I have my doubts. <Laugh>.

(33:52):

Yeah. It's like the, the parents that don't think their baby's ugly, but it's

(33:58):

Yeah. Yeah. There are few of them.

(34:00):

Right. And, and it, it takes hu humility. I, I, I sense it takes a humbleness. Yeah. And a willingness even as a leader, an organization, a team to engage in these conversations and these curiosities, you know, if, if we just see it as curious, let's, let's, let's take a, an objective approach. Let's, let's de detach ourselves from the people looking at all the processes and the standard operating procedures and the systems and all that stuff. And we just raise ourselves out for a little while and then have an objective look into it. Would it be almost like you're asking your teams that, you know, if they were the consultant coming in to look at their own processes, what would they tell themselves?

(34:47):

I, I, I think this, this, that's, that's, that's every way. Because basically what you're asking from to kind of you know, step aside and look at it, that's is after Correct. What you say. One thing that is helping, you know, that's that's another I'm going right now, I'm, I'm writing an article about it, so I will send you a hand will be writing in a few weeks. That's about, you know, in, in teams there's an incredible number of untapped talents and one of the talents with regard to what we're just discussing. I'm always also had tried to, to, to discover who in this team is really good at noticing, Hey, this makes sense. It does make sense because it's a, it's a, it's a kind of, I dunno if you call it a talent or skill, but there are always people who are very rare razor sharp.

(35:37):

But if they're not invited to, to, to table well, if's introverted, you will never, ever heard something if extrovert still they might be, or, or they say, or people say, oh yeah. With a big mouse. You know, you know, shut up. You know, and because it's, it's a crucial it's a crucial talent to use in situation where you just feel there's just too much going on. Right. Also, to kind of activate this talent and embrace as a team, you know, we should really as, say, say for example, you, you're, you're the team and, and we know that you, you are really good at it. You really say, Hey, team, we please, you know, say it changes us when you see, okay, there we go again. You know, adding stuff without moving anything.

(36:20):

Yeah. And it takes that humility to be able to, to receive that feedback too.

(36:25):

Yeah.

(36:25):

Yeah. I have a member of my team that's like that, and so I can tell when he's quiet, so whenever he's quiet or his body language moves in a certain way, I'm like, ah, he has a, he has a brilliant thought going on in there. Right. And so I have the, you know, I'll watch or I'll, I'll realize, you know Ryan hasn't spoken up in a bit <laugh>, so Okay. I'll go, okay. So what's your perception on this? What's your perspective? What do you see? What do you, what questions have we not yet answered or thought of that I think we need to ask? And so what, as a leader, I listen for the quiet people. I literal literally listen for the quietness because those people that are quiet are noodling on it. You know, it's not like they're checked out. You can tell when people are checked out, but this engaged person that is, is aware and listening and taking notes, let's get their ideas as well.

(37:19):

Yeah, absolutely. You know, one other thing that helps in, in like in teams, if you'll definitely recognize this as well, you know, always people who come up and say, Hey, you know, we should do this or this. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so I, I did learn at some point in time when, when I already felt like, I mean, there's plenty on our plates, you know? Mm-Hmm. I don't think we were leaving for something else. So I, I started at some point of time to ask the person, it's a very interesting idea. You know, are you willing to pick it up yourself? An interesting thing of Tina? And more often than not, people say, well I, I don't know if fits right now my agenda, so this, this, this, people, you have to slow them down a little bit. And this is a question that can help you. Mm-Hmm. Always ask Is it is, do you think it's so good that you are willing to pick it up?

(38:09):

Yeah. That's brilliant. You know,

(38:11):

Instead of dropping and, and looking at, okay, who's going to do it?

(38:14):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

(38:15):

Yeah. But always people, you, you'll also in your coaching, like you also, I, I I, I work quite often also with people who just say yes to stuff that doesn't belong on their plates. And then they get in trouble. They do. Because at some point in time they do everything but their own work

(38:34):

And you're going to be your criteria for your performances on your own work. Yeah. and so that's healthy boundaries and commun better communications with those people that are asking you to do something. Yeah. Get very clear on the, the need for this. Yeah. Yeah. This is awesome. So you also help Franz, do you also help your organizations analyze their cost savings or performance increases with offloading?

(39:04):

No. not literally, you know. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But what I mean, we always look from, if we offload, you know, what, what are we going to do? So I I look at how you say it hard outcomes. They don't misunderstand me. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But for example part it can be that where there is really just way too much workload and we, that you have like employee satisfaction survey, stuff like that. So that in, in that case, you know, these numbers have really to go up Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> say we're uploading and make that we, we are basically trimming their workload. These numbers should go up. Other, other indication are often, that's also where it start with me. If you, if you say, for example, there are three key projects or three key initiatives where we want to accelerate, it just goes too slow, you know? So then the key indicator is to do is the capacity that we basically, we we, we free up mm-Hmm. Thing we relocated doesn't really now start to deliver. So I, it's, it's usually, it's not like it's the profit of the company now. Mm-Hmm. Going up because that's a, there are too many other elements that are also influence with, but these things I just gave as an example are more, are still very hard, measurable things that it doesn't really lead to something. Mm-Hmm.

(40:22):

<Affirmative>, you could see the performance increase in productivity because they're becoming a laser focus on the key priorities versus, you know, a floodlight trying to get everything done. Yeah.

(40:33):

And you know what's also an interesting one, that's the kind of an indirect, I don't know if you if that's the right way of saying, it's a kind of indirect measurement. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> you often where too many things are happening at the same time, I guarantee you that the engagement of people goes down because it's much going on. People are non of switching, and you get more or less you know, it becomes more and more unclear. I mean, doesn't matter what I do, you know, doesn't lead to something. Right. You see the other way around them at the moment, you, you offload, you always offload stuff. You know, that, that doesn't make sense. That is, you know, you know, or negative energy, you all, you almost always will see that people can basically spend more time and be more focused on stuff that does energize them. And that does give the impact from what I do in period. So also the, the engagement is definitely impacted by, by off learning.

(41:31):

That's awesome. I love it. And I love to help my clients celebrate the wins. And so whenever a project does get across the finish line, you know, we've all Yeah. Amassed our energy and our efforts to do things as a team, and you get it across the finish line. It, it, it requires celebration to really anchor in the wind. What I would imagine is if we are in this, you know, too many spinning plates format of our work, then whenever we celebrate something, it's almost anti-climatic because you're like, yeah, what, I have to go focus on this now I have one thing done, but I have another 20 things I'm doing. So would, have you noticed that whenever you laser focus a team toward the finish line, that that celebration is actually palpable?

(42:19):

It it is. You know, but one, one thing that I like to add to it, because that's interesting, and also because the audience there, you also have to, you think about cultural differences. Mm-Hmm. You know, because for example, I'm Dutch, you know? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And in, in, in in the Dutch culture, if you start say, oh, we should celebrate now, you know people are looking at you and say, well, you know, they're a little skeptical. It's the same. Like, of course, I I also work for a lot of subsidiaries of US companies. And you know, if you have, if you put, just give you example, if you put in an office in the Netherlands Mm-Hmm. Employee of the month, people will laugh, you know, and they, they'll say, are we, are we at McDonald's? You know, is it I mean, it's, it's not part of our culture, so you got it.

(43:03):

But, but you know, like in Netherlands, what people will love, we say, Hey, you know, this was great. Let's go have a drink tonight. Spontaneously, that's what it, I like to a little bit, you know, the, the boss who comes in is going to have a kind of celebration start. I, I, I don't think it's in our culture that's, that's recipe for success. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. It's also, I think what you say is vital. You need to, you need, but you have to be aware of how does it work with the kind of the team or the culture I work with. Because as I said, I work a lot for US companies, but they are not too much aligned with different cultures how they like to celebrate. That's true.

(43:40):

So I guess another word for celebration would be acknowledgement.

(43:45):

That's it. That's

(43:45):

It. Acknowledgement of it. Yeah. Like we did have a win. We got across the finish line. Good job. Right? <laugh>.

(43:52):

Yeah. It's, it's, yeah.

(43:54):

<Laugh>. I love that. I love that. So how do people connect with friends? How do we follow you? Tell us about the book. Fill us in. We wanna stay connected.

(44:04):

Yeah. Now the, the, i I, this is only one way, and I'll explain to you why. And that is connect with me on LinkedIn. I will post on a regular basis, not too often, you know, new articles, new insights, and I will, I will start giving clues about the book and what it, whether it go pop up. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, I'll tell you why. Because everyone's asking when are you starting with newsletters and when are you starting with this kind? And then, you know, that doesn't fit what I stand for because I, I have learned of trying to say people, you have to offload. You also have to, you are now, you know, you are following 50 news letters, make it 12. Which one are you really looking at? Right. So if I, if I start adding, okay, these are from about offloading, and you should get the newsletter and you should get, I mean, that's a little bit strange message for Mm-Hmm.

(44:53):

The work I did. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So I, I currently focus purely on LinkedIn in terms of, you know sharing relevant stuff. And it might be that I I, I'm considering, I know and think about starting after books out to have an offload podcast. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I still don't know the frequency, but that's not going to be an hour. It has nothing to do with you. I don't misunderstand me. But also there I want to, I, I want a little bit different format. So I think my podcast will be something like, it's still work in progress in my mind. It's something like I will invite huge variety of people. So not only this national CO huge, and then will ask him, what are two things that you offloaded in the past months? And what is your biggest challenge with continue to offload? And something like that. Three or four questions. And then you don't need a lot of time from people that like more frequently. So that might be the next thing that I'm going to add. And probably that will be it for quite a while. Mm-Hmm.

(45:52):

<Affirmative>. That's awesome. I love it. And so on LinkedIn, that is, you are the handle free capacity. Correct?

(45:59):

Yeah. But if you just say France <inaudible>. I know. Okay. I, I think you, yeah. The name is somewhere Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Just, just connect with me. And I would love it if you, if the people are now listening or watching this to, to, to drop a line that, hey, and I was watching TM Reach podcast. I really like to, to to know that, and that, that's, that's it. And, and they will be informed also about when the book's going to be there. To first will be Dutch, that will be in English. But I'll take care of that.

(46:29):

That's awesome. You are a boy, and thank you for bringing into our awareness as leaders, the term offloading and helping us understand that that needs to be part of our conversation. As we move our companies and our teams forward to make progress, we need to also consider what needs to be stopped at the same time. Yeah. <Laugh>. Yeah. It's a brilliant way to look at it, and I think it's been very helpful. I know it has been for me today. Yeah. Thank you. So thank

(46:56):

You. Yeah. Thank you so much, Steven, for inviting me. I really enjoyed it.

(47:00):

Thank you. Thank you for listening to Ignite Your Leadership. Be able to share this with all the leaders you know, and the people that you know, would love to hear how they need to start considering offloading things from their plates so they don't feel overwhelmed and their teams perform a whole lot better. Thanks again, Franz.